Curse

strcpy · Nov 19, 2007, 09:58 AM // 09:58

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Originally Posted by ryan_child

Hello! If you saw my first thread in the questions/awnsers part, you should know who I am! I'm going to post the things I enjoyed/disliked most in my early journeys through Guild Wars. (I have Guild Wars and Guild Wars: Eye of the North but I'm in regular GW)

After 2 years I certainly enjoy my place in GW but I do somewhat envy hitting the game fresh. I remember my first days here and there are things we currently have I would have *loved*.

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COMMUNITY

The community in Guild Wars is not bad, (atleast where i've been) i've been able to find help and some people even gave me some stuff without me even asking! (It's dumb to ask for things, and I don't.) Some people are rude, but for me it's going pretty smoothly.

I've found the in game community to be - bleh. Good if you play certain classes, bad if you play others. Though I've never been big on PUGS on any game I play and would say the same about them. While I participate in the forums and enjoy that participation immensely, too many are whiners. However, the good posts and posters greatly outweigh that.

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MISSIONS

The missions can be tons of fun, but also hard. Like the one where you have to scout out the Charr army, and then run away can be very confusing because across the bridge is scorpions, and if you hit them by accident, your henchies will aggro them and bleh you lose. I feel they don't explain it so well in some parts (what you have to do), but the storyline of the missions are awesome and overall fun.

The wiki's really help on this. On my first time through I normally go without reading them and only check on missions I have trouble with. There is usually a trick to the ones that are "hard". I'm never sure if that is good or bad that I do that, some of my most memorable moments in GW are before the wiki was around (or, at the least not complete enough to bother with) yet there are missions that would have been too frustrating without it.

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GRINDING

I love how there is little grinding, and how monsters can appear in groups or out of groups and walk around "freely". I do find it VERY fustrating you can easily get killed and sometimes it can be almots impossible to get past certain mobs.

Such is life in any game that has no grinding. There has to be *some* hard content that takes some level of knowledge of the game. In other games grind a bit and get over it with the same brute force you have always used, in GW you have to learn how to get past it. If you can't grind past it then you have to learn and that is intrinsically harder.

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ARMOR/WEAPONS

I find the choices very limited, and it is VERY annoying having everyone run around with the same armor. Hard to obtain good armor/weapons, too.

It will change later on, especially with the addition of later chapters.

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LEVEL CAP

The level cap is well, horrible. I find it very boring to get halfway done with the level cap in a few days.. 1.5/10
Sorry GW, didn't do too well there.

This is integral to the "no grinding" thing. You either have level based (and grind) or non-level based and little grind. As has been said you have to get over thinking about level, it is mostly irrelevant. I'm almost of a mind that they should have dropped the whole concept completely, started everyone with full attributes, and had everything totally skill based (both in terms of player skill and acquiring skills). Level doesn't have anything close to the old connotations with it and is an absolutely worthless measure in this game.

In time I think you will rate this one higher, as someone else said it takes experiencing the whole game to understand what has been written. Like many others I was also dismayed at how quickly you made it to max level, but after 2 years I find it an absolute core game play value.

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SKILLS/ABILITIES

I like the wide choices, but having 8 bars isn't really my tastes, but still; for some people I guess it will take more "skill" in PvP.

It's not so much PvP as making sure you have trade offs. The same idea is there with elites - only allowing one. Though this has somewhat divided the community into those into those that use the so called "cookie cutter builds" and those that make their own (however, the cookie cutter builds being quite easy and effective many of us that make our own end up with those builds also). Even if you simply copy someone else's build it still take more thought than all skills available. This too will probably eventually become just a part of the game.

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OVERALL

I overall rate my journey's so far a 8/10. Many parts are amazing, and other parts okay, eh, and not so good. But overall, it's a great game.

No game will be perfect and I think a few of your lower scores will get higher as you play longer. GW isn't really a traditional MMO and it takes some getting used too.

On to someone else (no need for multiple posts IMO):

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Originally Posted by aapo

- That's quite an advertisement. Something from backside of the CD case. Did it work for the good or bad since they're seriously considering scrapping the whole concept in GW2?

So far they have said they will remove the level cap yet stop power creep to keep things equal. We don't really know what that means - from what they have described it would be as if GW currently gave a number above your head based on your EXP earned yet no change past level 20. Lets face it, with Skill Points there has always been *some* level of grind to create a truly flexible PvE character and, as such, there has always been some level of increasing power because of that.

If the above is the case (and is what they are mostly describing right now) then it is a minor change that I have no idea why they have not done it in GW1.

The same is true for "solo" play - so far they are giving mixed signals on it. We do not know what form it will take and declaring your side as the "winner" is VERY premature.

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Well, Diablo II had instances for which the playerlimit was 8 if I recall correctly. Level cap was fixed at 99 and you could only max attributes for 5 different skills. You could have two skills active at the time - one for left mouse button and one for right mouse button, which you could change with hotkeys. How can you say these features are "what Guild Wars is" when they're 1) not unique to GW and 2) only a way of designing a game, not objective.

There is nothing truly new under the sun - Diablo copied that from other games (hotkeys switching skills on mouse buttons had been around since the early 90's at least - heck I did that in Wolfenstien 3D). Yet in both the case of Diablo and GW they took quite a few concepts from different games and combined them together. Most sane people consider that to be innovation and a new game play experience. However, if one wants too they can even trace back the Graphical User Interface in a computer to research done in the 1600's (or as far back as one wants to go) in VERY minor little changes to existing technology. Yet, it still doesn't invalidate that each step was mostly unique and original. In fact, I doubt that many of the people who call it "ripping someone else off" would do nearly as well.

arsie · Nov 19, 2007, 10:07 AM // 10:07

He has a slight point that game developers would want to look at.

Yes he's reviewing everything at level 11, but the fact of the matter is, noone will ever judge GW in isolation. People play other games, and will inevitably compared them to the games they have played.

I must say that, having attempted to lure my WoW playing friend to GW, there is quite a lot of mindset changing that needs to happen. Most people just completely shuts off their minds once they have decided something. Doubt is painful, and change is difficult.

The game, at pre-searing is so fundamentally different from the game, not even at level 20, but at maybe 15 or so, when you can max at least one attribute.

And while, I'll not be bothered if our level 11 friend here quits the game if he is bothered by the level cap. Perhaps people at Anet would be.

Perhaps GW2 would bow to the inevitable that while Anet successfully changed our minds and got us enjoying their way of doing things, it probably failed to open the minds of a lot more people.

Doing something different from the norm will either make you the next big hit, or relegate you to relative obscurity. But doing exactly the same thing as the norm will guarantee mediocrity.

Esan · Nov 19, 2007, 10:44 AM // 10:44

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Originally Posted by Vinraith

Instancing, limited skill bars, the level cap, all of these are what makes Guild Wars what it is. Of course, since Guild Wars 2 is doing away with at least two of these it's apparent that the things that make this franchise unique probably die with this game.

I am sure Guild Wars 2 will have other features making it stand out from the lot. I mean, did or did not one of the founders of Anet speak at length about the perils of making a "like WoW, but" game? Anet probably knows what they're doing, even if they have a bit of difficulty at times making their ideals square with what they can actually deliver.

Viruzzz · Nov 19, 2007, 12:16 PM // 12:16

it takes like an hour to reach lv11. more in prophecies obviously. but not that much longer.

what you're reviewing is half a day of gameplay at most.

also giving the level cap 1.5/10
you can't do that at lv11. cause you don't have a clue what lv20 is like.
the majority of the content is for lv 20. at lv20 there's 10 times as much content as there is from 1-10 together

sorry to say. but your review is not worth anything. since you haven't really played the game.
same story with a lot of the reviews being posted on gaming review sites around the internet, they spend a couple of hours in the first towns and review the entire game from that

crazy diamond · Nov 19, 2007, 12:46 PM // 12:46

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Originally Posted by aapo

- If we're advocating the idea of skill-based system, two things in current GW don't make any sense:

1) If good PvE playing is so severely limited to dealing best DPS to most possible enemies at the time and surviving with protective enchantments, what is the point of having multiple professions with overlapping roles? As for PvP, was it a good idea to introduce Dervish with gimmick skills like immunity to conditions or permanent 33% speed boost? Or an Assassin which can ignore tactical elements like positioning, kiting and blocking with do-or-die stats?

2) Why aren't skills balanced properly so that there's actual competition what to take? There are also some skills like Revive Animal, Dryder's Defenses and Persistence of Memory with no practical purpose anywhere in game.

You try to balance 10 classes worth of skills(more than a good 1200 skills all around) yourself and see how that works out for ya. The game is far from perfect, but that doesn't suddenly mean that the concept isn't there, and that they should just boost the level cap and skill disparity will magically go away. You're just complaining about skill balance issues. Something that a raised level cap will not fix. Raising the level cap will not make skill imbalance go away. Level cap will not magically fix the issues of class/skill balance for you. Stop advocating skill/class balance issues as an excuse to raise the level cap. It would not do anything to improve the situation. Have I said it enough already?

ryan_child · Nov 19, 2007, 01:20 PM // 13:20

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Originally Posted by crazy diamond

Good lord, you have no idea what you're talking about. Anyone who complains about the level cap completely misses the point of the game. Especially when you're not even there yet.

It's my opinion, you can like it or not. Won't change a thing, to be honest. I said whatIliked best, I personally like high level caps better than lower. But I guess low ones can be more convient because there's not going to be so much noob calling, struggling to do the FUN parts of the game, (FOR EXAMPLE= WoW. GOOD LORD!) and other things.

And sorry whoever moderates these forums, I won't talk in bold anymore.

crazy diamond · Nov 19, 2007, 01:22 PM // 13:22

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Originally Posted by ryan_child

It's my opinion, you can like it or not. Won't change a thing, to be honest. I said whatIliked best, I personally like high level caps better than lower.

Who said anything about liking or hating it. Don't put words in my mouth.

warcrap · Nov 20, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

umm why dont you actually beat one campaign before shooting your mouth i havn't beaten a single one yet you dont see me instantly judging the game like that.

Exhonour · Nov 20, 2007, 11:08 PM // 23:08

i would rate the game same as u when i started playing, hated cap and 8 skills, now i love lvl 20 cap and making tactics with 8 skills

ensoriki · Nov 20, 2007, 11:11 PM // 23:11

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Originally Posted by Shadowfox1125

If you dislike only having 8 skills and only able to reach level 20, then sorry but, GW isn't the game for you.

Please review the game when you have at least reached level 20. I can reach level 11 on a Factions character in maybe less than 2 hours.

You can get to level 11 in factions in about half an hour to an hour 20 minutes

The rest of the way is what takes long.

Also if GW had no level CAP I would've quit.

I play and have so many games where the game JUST comes into Open/Close Beta...I rush to level 40....I come back the next day...level 70's/80's.

And im thinking....because I go to school....I have to suck? Shove some Red Engines up that!

played Maplestory? Played the game went to level 46...and thought........look how long it took me.... and the game is bland anyways..

Many games just suck BECAUSE of the level cap >.>

If I had the chance to revive old games

I'd revive Hoverboard A.S.D.F and Survival Project.

My level meant jack crap, because I could still own people with high equips because I knew wtf I was doing >.>

GW is similar to those (although.....skill portion isnt as great IMO)

angmar_nite · Nov 20, 2007, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Impossible mobs? Wait which ones are these? And the level Cap isn't suppose to represent character advancement. In any other campaign you'd be there already.

And the other chapters add an IMMENSE variety of armors.